Re: Strange thoughts on PN - was Re: BAD vs. BADD

[tholtz@geol.umd.edu]

>> Neither of these really seems to hold much water, at least to me.
>> a) This statement is somewhat hypocritical. Going from what Holtz said
>> earlier, Caudipteryx, Velociraptor, Microraptor, Archaeopteryx, and
>> modern
>> birds have more in common than Velociraptor, Tyrannosaurus, Apatosaurus,
>> Parasaurolophus, Triceratops and Stegosaurus do. If birds can't be
>> considered
>> dinosaurs, then we might as well break up Dinosauria entirely.
>
> But isn't it strange that, despite this list being frequented mostly
> by stronge believers in PN + cladistics, it is still called the
> "dinosaur mailing list", not the "non-avian dinosaur mailing list"?

Well, we often DO discuss Mesozoic and Cenozoic birds.

And in my forthcoming kids encyclopedia, I most definitely DO include
birds (as I did in the Little Giant Book of Dinosaurs).

Personally, I'm comfortable with talking about "Mesozoic dinosaurs", just
as there are specialists on Mesozoic mammals or Paleozoic vertebrates.

Also, there are levels-of-generality issues. After all, while one could in
principle publish some sociological study or human behavior study in the
Journal of Mammalogy, the editors would direct you to a more specialist
journal. That doesn't mean that the editors of the JM don't regard humans
as mammals!!

> And doesn't "The complete dinosaur"-book exclude birds almost
> completely (so, according to PN, it excludes about 80-90% of
> all dinosaurs and still calls itself "complete")

That is changing in the 2nd edition...

> And isn't it strange that it seems none of the PN-adherents here has
> a problem with the notion "non-avian dinosaur", but can argue against
> how arbitrary it would be to separate dinosaurs from birds?

See previous comment I made about "non-human primates"; a useful phrase,
but I would most certainly disagree that humans are a different "kind"
than primates!

                Thomas R. Holtz, Jr.
        Senior Lecturer, Vertebrate Paleontology
Department of Geology           Director, Earth, Life & Time Program
University of Maryland          College Park Scholars
        Mailing Address:
                Building 237, Room 1117
                College Park, MD  20742

http://www.geol.umd.edu/~tholtz/
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