Re: ceratopsian frount limb stance

["cliff green" <dinonaut@tacisp.com>]

----- Original Message -----
From: Toby White <mwhite@houston.rr.com>
To: <dinonaut@tacisp.com>; dinolist <dinosaur@usc.edu>
Sent: Monday, October 16, 2000 11:04 AM
Subject: Re: ceratopsian frount limb stance


> Cliff et al:
>
> Is there any general understanding about how ceratopsians turned?  I've
seen
> the question raised a couple of times with therapods and got the
impression
> there may not be even be a GASP (Generally Accepted SPeculation). Is there
> evidence, or even a GASP for quadrupeds?
>
> --Toby White
> Dear Toby and list,

Of all the red eyed conversations on ceratopsian locomotion that I've been
envolved with over the years, how they spun on their heels has never, to my
knowledge, been brought up. I think Bakker has made some hypothetical
comment in his book and lectures, although I'm not certain when and where.
Now I'm really curious.Does any one on the list have any input on this?

Cliff

> The Vertebrate Notes at:
> http://home.houston.rr.com/vnotes/index.htm and
> http://www.dinodata.net
>
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "cliff green" <dinonaut@tacisp.com>
> To: "dinolist" <dinosaur@usc.edu>
> Sent: Monday, October 16, 2000 1:24 PM
> Subject: Re: ceratopsian frount limb stance
>
>
> > >  The running _T. rex_ on the homepage (as well as the background) is
> > > admirable, but why does the _Triceratops_ sprawl its forelimbs?
> > >
> > > Dear Mr. Marjanovic and list members,
> > >
> > >     Because that's how it really walked.
> > >
> > >      For the longest time, I haven't posted on the list, because I had
> > > nothing to ad. Now I do.
> > >
> > >     I have just completed six different ceratopsian sculptures for The
> > > Discovery Channel's new "When Dinosaurs Roamed America" CGI
documentary
> > > program that is coming out next summer. I have worked extensively with
> Dr.
> > > Jim Kirkland and Scott Samson with a chaser of the Paleo Artist Bob
> > Walters,
> > who has and is working with the Smithsonian on  computer scanned
> ceratopsian
> > > frount limb orientation and locomotion, with specific study of
> > Triceratops.
> > >     Here's what was found. According to The Smithsonian's research,
> based
> > on
> > > computer analysis, Ceratopsians cannot fit their frount legs under
their
> > > bodys, and do indeed have an elbows out appearance.This is of coarse
> > > something that paleontologists had written on their Post It notes on
the
> > > fridge well over a century ago.
> > >     All three of my technical advisors agree strongly with elbows out.
> > Using
> > > the term "sprawl" is a bit harsh. it isn't like ceratopsians skidded
> > through
> > > life with their chests digging burrows into the dirt, frount legs held
> out
> > > in a lizard stance.
> > >     Scott Samson and Jim Kirkland have both agreed that they held
their
> > > frount limbs moderately elbows out and rested the weight on the second
> > > digit, feet
> > > slightly splayed outward. With this configuration, they also fit quite
> > > comfortly in the ceratopsian trackway. I have a drawing of the
trackway
> > > prints, and used them to acheive a proper stance for the sculptures.
> > >     I have high hopes that this starts a brand new raging thread.
> > >
> > > Any questions or comments,  you all know where to reach me.
> > >
> > > Hugs,
> > >
> > > Cliff Green
> > >
> > >
> >
>
>