Re: ceratopsian frount limb stance

["Toby White" <mwhite@houston.rr.com>]

Cliff et al:

Is there any general understanding about how ceratopsians turned?  I've seen
the question raised a couple of times with therapods and got the impression
there may not be even be a GASP (Generally Accepted SPeculation). Is there
evidence, or even a GASP for quadrupeds?

--Toby White

The Vertebrate Notes at:
http://home.houston.rr.com/vnotes/index.htm and
http://www.dinodata.net



----- Original Message -----
From: "cliff green" <dinonaut@tacisp.com>
To: "dinolist" <dinosaur@usc.edu>
Sent: Monday, October 16, 2000 1:24 PM
Subject: Re: ceratopsian frount limb stance


> >  The running _T. rex_ on the homepage (as well as the background) is
> > admirable, but why does the _Triceratops_ sprawl its forelimbs?
> >
> > Dear Mr. Marjanovic and list members,
> >
> >     Because that's how it really walked.
> >
> >      For the longest time, I haven't posted on the list, because I had
> > nothing to ad. Now I do.
> >
> >     I have just completed six different ceratopsian sculptures for The
> > Discovery Channel's new "When Dinosaurs Roamed America" CGI documentary
> > program that is coming out next summer. I have worked extensively with
Dr.
> > Jim Kirkland and Scott Samson with a chaser of the Paleo Artist Bob
> Walters,
> who has and is working with the Smithsonian on  computer scanned
ceratopsian
> > frount limb orientation and locomotion, with specific study of
> Triceratops.
> >     Here's what was found. According to The Smithsonian's research,
based
> on
> > computer analysis, Ceratopsians cannot fit their frount legs under their
> > bodys, and do indeed have an elbows out appearance.This is of coarse
> > something that paleontologists had written on their Post It notes on the
> > fridge well over a century ago.
> >     All three of my technical advisors agree strongly with elbows out.
> Using
> > the term "sprawl" is a bit harsh. it isn't like ceratopsians skidded
> through
> > life with their chests digging burrows into the dirt, frount legs held
out
> > in a lizard stance.
> >     Scott Samson and Jim Kirkland have both agreed that they held their
> > frount limbs moderately elbows out and rested the weight on the second
> > digit, feet
> > slightly splayed outward. With this configuration, they also fit quite
> > comfortly in the ceratopsian trackway. I have a drawing of the trackway
> > prints, and used them to acheive a proper stance for the sculptures.
> >     I have high hopes that this starts a brand new raging thread.
> >
> > Any questions or comments,  you all know where to reach me.
> >
> > Hugs,
> >
> > Cliff Green
> >
> >
>