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Re: SV: 55 million year old parrot found



Folks, when is the oldest known psittacine, apart from this find? I honestly thought I'd previously been told that the oldest known psittacine was in Cretaceous or end-Cretaceous times.

I've plowed through these posts. People have consistently named finds from a good deal later than the find in question, but tehy also insist that their are finds that old, and insist that hte controversial point is that this particular find is different from other psittacines.

If the only point of controversy is that this find is different from other psittacines, why has noone mentioned other psittacine finds this old?

Yours,
Dora Smith
Austin, TX
tiggernut24@yahoo.com

----- Original Message ----- From: "evelyn sobielski" <koreke77@yahoo.de>
To: <dinosaur@usc.edu>
Sent: Saturday, May 17, 2008 7:25 PM
Subject: Re: SV: 55 million year old parrot found




Riversleigh is early Miocene, isn't it? (It seems to
oscillate in the
literature between Oligocene and Miocene.)

At least the Riversleigh cockatoo is early Miocene IIRC. The original description is doi:10.1111/j.1474-919X.1993.tb02804.x


> too [few] cladistic studies with comprehensive
sampling exist for reasons
> unknown

The reason is very simple: a morphological cladistic
analysis of any kind of
decent size is at least a chapter of a PhD thesis.

Yes, but it's just as bad with molecular studies. Astuti has 2-3 nice ones (including the thesis), but apart from that it's just in-depth looks at particular clades, or very coarse general papers. The former is highly useful to me personally, but in the general scheme of things it's almost non-informative: the clades are usually Neotropical psittaciforms, which is about as far from base as one can get.


There is an _Agapornis_ or two (or something as similar to these as the Riversleigh fossil is to _Cacatua_) from Langebaanweg, a few Ma later than the cockatoo. This is highly valuable because it proves that the clade Mayr discusses was not only distinct ~20 mya, but that it had already radiated and dispersed. Its origin is in the general region of New Guinea as surely as this can be said in the absence of basal fossils. Oh, and the budgie is part of it too as it seems - it would thus have an interesting combination of plesiomorphic overall pattern and mildly apomorphic coloration among the crown Psittaciformes.

But the most interesting psittaciform probably still is the large species of Easter Island. A quadrate piece of a bird with a head size comparable to a kakapo. Nothing new on this since it was described nearly 15 years ago. Quaternary of course, but if anything even more tantalizing than _Mopsitta_. It might just about carry enough information to apply the results of the phylogenetic analyses to it, but I have not seen a photo of the wretched thing, and the description of the specimen was in a small-circulation journal. The Mascarenes taxa OTOH have recently been reviewed in Zootaxa and little questions remain.


Regards,

Eike


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