Re: H1N5 (and Bakker's virus extinction hypothesis) now H5N1

[Tim Williams <twilliams_alpha@hotmail.com>]

Mickey Mortimer wrote:

> A large number of groups appeared and diversified in the Late Cretaceous, 
> even in Western North America (tyrannosaurids, hadrosaurids, ceratopsids, 
> etc.).  What the issue involves is whether this continued through the Late 
> Maastrichtian at the very end of the Cretaceous.  From my very limited 
> understanding, the argument for less diversity centers on the fewer taxa of 
> tyrannosaurids (Tyrannosaurus), hadrosaurids (Edmontosaurus) and 
> ceratopsids (Triceratops, Torosaurus) in the Late Maastrichtian Hell Creek 
> / Lance / Scollard Formations; compared to the higher number of 
> tyrannosaurids (Gorgosaurus, Daspletosaurus), hadrosaurids 
> (Brachylophosaurus, Kritosaurus, Prosaurolophus, Corythosaurus, 
> Hypacrosaurus, Lambeosaurus, Parasaurolophus), and ceratopsids 
> (Anchiceratops, Chasmosaurus, Centrosaurus, Styracosaurus) in the Late 
> Campanian Judith River Group.

Not to contradict Mickey (I think he's spot-on), but I think the relative 
diversity of dinosaur genera between these two levels may be exaggerated by 
current taxonomy.  For example, although everyone has their own trusty 
'genericometer' calibrated differently, mine tells me that the lumping and 
splitting of genera might be a little uneven over this end-K period.  For 
example, the Judith River Group lambeosaurines might be said to be oversplit 
(e.g., _Hypacrosaurus_ and _Corythosaurus_ are so similar as to be 
congeneric), and the same might also be said for the contemporary 
centrosaurines (_Centrosaurus_/_Styracosaurus_).  By contrast the late 
Maastrichtian taxa could be over-lumped.  It depends on whether you consider 
_Diceratops_ distinct from _Triceratops_, and _Anatotian_ distinct from 
_Edmontosaurus_.  And a whole saga could be written on the issue of 
_Tyrannosaurus_ taxonomy, including the validity (or not) of _Nanotyrannus_.

Still, the point stands.  Phylogenetically, there does appear to have been a 
drop in dinosaur diversity between the two levels (JRG and Hell 
Creek/Lance/Scollard), with some lines that were alive (and even thriving) 
in the late Campanian going extinct prior to the late Maastrichtian.  
Although it's tempting to suggest that this is indicative of a decline, I 
think we need to know more about diversity in pre-JRG dinofaunas.  Maybe 
dinosaurs were unusually diverse in the late Campanian of northwestern North 
America?

Now for something completely different (but still on the same thread)...

Adrienne Mayor wrote:

> Tim's right--but I meant the beginning of Homer's Iliad, which starts  in 
> the 10th year of the war.

And if Odysseus hadn't come up with that brilliant idea of the woodern 
horse, who knows how much longer the Trojan War would have dragged on!?  
It's clear that Agamemnon went to war against Troy without a clear exit 
strategy.

BTW, I'm not sure it's such a good idea to glean too much historical data 
from the _Iliad_.  Sure, it's not unusual for armies to be afflicted by 
epidemics, given the prevailing conditions (close living quarters, 
unsanitary conditions, exposure to foreign pathogens encountered while 
campaigning far from home).  But the "wrath of Apollo" plague that opens the 
_Iliad_ may simply be pure myth, like much of what appears in the _Iliad_ 
(and other ancient Greek sources).  There certainly does seem to be a kernel 
of truth behind the ancient Greek stories of the Trojan Wars* insofar as 
there was some kind of Bronze Age conflict at the geographical overlap of 
the Hittite and Mycenean civilizations, centered on northwest Asia Minor.  
But many details are probably just invention, such as the plague that struck 
the Greek camp in the tenth year; the abduction of a Spartan princess named 
Helen that began the whole thing; and the utterly fanciful notion of the 
"Trojan horse" which allegedly ended the war.

Plagues are mentioned elsewhere in Greek myth, such as the one that 
afflicted the city of Thebes, which was instigated when Niobe, queen of 
Thebes, offended Apollo and Artemis.

*There was actually two separate Trojan Wars in Greek myth: the one featured 
in the _Iliad_ and _Odyssey_, and one a generation earlier under Heracles, 
when King Priam was a boy.  If one includes the Trojan/Phrygian campaign 
against the Amazons, mentioned by Priam in the _Iliad_, that's a third.

Cheers

Tim