Re: An even dumber question

["T. Michael Keesey" <mightyodinn@yahoo.com>]

--- zone65@bigpond.com wrote:
> 
> Although, crocs do stand, walk and run with their limbs upright at 
> times.

CMIIW, but, while their stance is supposed to be less sprawling than most other
ectothermic amniotes, I think it's still not as upright as that of dinosaurs.

Anyway, the stance is only the *original* reason. The grouping has stood the
test time of due to other characteristics.

> And triceratops (at least) had a 'bent elbow' posture.

I almost mentioned this, but didn't think it was worth it. For one thing, the
hindlimbs are fully upright, as in all dinosaurs. For another, as footprints
show, the feet are still under the body, even if the forelimbs were bent.

In any event, the bent elbows (which are still contested by some, I think)
would not be inherited from the basal condition, since coronosaurian
ceratopsians, like all quadrupedal dinosaur clades, are secondarily
quadrupedal, descended from a bipedal ancestor.

> Is the stance really enough to differentiate crocs from members of
dinosauria?

See above; it's just the original reason.
 
> And aren't cladistics like statistics, in that they can be made to 
> 'prove' desired results?

The nice thing about cladistic studies is that they publish their character
matrices in full detail. So, if you think any are untrue or incomplete, you can
back this up in detail.

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