Re: Bainoceratops -- "Leptoceratopsid" or Sistergroup to the Ceratopsidae?

["Mickey Mortimer" <Mickey_Mortimer111@msn.com>]

Nick Gardner wrote-

> Hello all! I just finished adding all of the characters and codings from
> Peter Makovicky's analysis of neoceratopsians (P. Makovicky, 2001) and
then
> I added Bainoceratops efremovi and Liaoceratops yanzigouensis into the
> matrix.  Bainoceratops is only known from a vertebral series and
> Liaoceratops is only known from cranial material.

Why not try adding Bainoceratops and Liaoceratops to Makovicky's (2002)
thesis instead?  It has more characters (122 vs. 98) and eight more taxa
(IVPP V 12722 = "Xuanhuasaurus"?; seven more ceratopsids).  The version in
Xu et al.'s (2002) analysis of Liaoceratops has 122 characters as well,
quite possibly identical to those in Makovicky's thesis.
Note Microceratops in Makovicky (2001) is the same as Graciliceratops in
Makovicky (2002).

> I performed the analysis in PAUP* 4.0b10, using the Heuristic Search.
There
> were 166 most parsimonious trees and 6462 steps per tree.  Character
> optimization was set to Delayed Transformation (DELTRAN).

Hard to believe given the fact even Xu et al.'s (2002) larger analysis had
MPT's with only 200 steps.  Each character would have to evolve convergently
or reverse over 65 times to have 6462 steps per tree, which is more steps
than the amount of nodes and terminal branches.  Also, how do you have 166
MPT's with a fully resolved consensus shown?

> The results were-
>
> --+--Hypsilophodon
>      `--+--Stegoceras
>         `--+--Chaoyangsaurus
>            `--+--Psittacosaurus
>               `--+--Archaeoceratops
>                  `--+--+--Asiaceratops
>                     |  `--+--Montanoceratops
>                     |     `--+--Udanoceratops
>                     |        `--Leptoceratops
>                     `--+--Liaoceratops
>                        `--+--Microceratops
>                           `--+--+--Bagaceratops
>                              |  `--Protoceratops
>                              `--+--Bainoceratops
>                                 `--+--Zuniceratops
>                                    `--+--Centrosaurus
>                                       `--Triceratops

Mickey Mortimer