Re: Coelurosaur phylogeny

["Mickey Mortimer" <Mickey_Mortimer111@msn.com>]

Ivan Kwan wrote-

> 1) Are _Compsognathus_, _Sinosauropteryx_, _Proceratosaurus_ &
> _Ornitholestes_ considered basal maniraptors, basal maniraptoriformes or
> basal coelurosaurs? And what is their phylogenetic placing relative to
> tyrannosaurs & ornithomimosaurs?

Depends on who you ask.
My most recent analysis (only 185 cranial, axial and pectoral characters so
far) considers them basal coelurosaurs, with Compsognathus, Sinosauropteryx
and Ornitholestes more derived than tyrannosauroids and Proceratosaurus, but
less derived than maniraptoriformes.

> 2) Are tyrannosaurs considered outside maniraptoriformes & thus classified
> as basal coelurosaurs?

In my analyses, yes.

> 3) Are ornithomimosaurs a part of maniraptoriformes or also basal
> coelurosaurs?

Maniraptoriformes is defined to always include them (= most recent common
ancestor of Ornithomimus and birds).

> So is it more closely related to_ Ceratosaurus_, _Noasaurus_ or is it a
> primitive abelisaurid? And would that mean that the very similar
> _Bahariasaurus_ would also likely be a ceratosaur instead of a basal
> coelurosaur?

If Deltadromeus is a ceratosaur, it would probably be closely related to
elaphrosaurs and/or noasaurids.  And yes, that would probably make
Bahariasaurus (which could be synonymous) a ceratosaur too, despite its
triangular obturator process.

David Marjanovic wrote-

> BTW: I've included Scansoriopterygidae in my bird analysis. So far they
love to come out next to (*Archaeopteryx* + (*Rahonavis* +
*Shenzhouraptor/Jeholornis*)), but maybe that's only because there are no
dromaeosaurs in there (yesterday I've added *Microraptor* but not run an
analysis with it). But I'm pretty sure they wouldn't go away far,
consistent with HP Mickey Mortimer's "preliminary" results of
Scansoriopterygidae as the sistergroup to Archie + short-tailed birds.
Evidence? For example the tail, where the middle vertebrae are over 2 x as
long as the 1st (also in *Microraptor*).

I think you'd need more than avians in the ingroup if you're going to show
Scansoriopteryx is avialan.

> W4MA, at least. :-)

My analysis says-
|--Tyrannosauroidea
|--Proceratosaurus
`--+--Ornitholestes
   |--Compsognathus
   |--Sinosauropteryx
   `--+--Enigmosauria (incl. Protarchaeopteryx)
      `--*--Arctometatarsalia (incl. Alvarezsauridae, Avimimus,
Archaeornithoides)
         `--Maniraptora (incl. Troodontidae, Deinonychosauria)
* = Maniraptoriformes (includes both Arctometatarsalia and Maniraptora)

Update with expanded cladogram and forelimb characters coming soon, maybe in
a week.

Mickey Mortimer