RE: Raptors Are Not Dinosaurs? Oh, My!

["Tim Williams" <twilliams_alpha@hotmail.com>]

Tom Holtz wrote:

> > My question: is there _any_ stage in the theropod tree where there
> > could possibly be a break from "true" theropods to non-dinosaur
> > "theropods" derived from non-dinosaurian birds
>
> No, there is no such morphological break.

To put the situation in perspective... the argument the BANDits are making 
is comparable in its absurdity to saying that the Hominoidea (gibbons, 
orangutans, gorillas, chimpanzees, humans) do not belong in the Primates, 
but evolved independently of "true" primates.  Thus, _Homo_ and our closest 
relatives had a separate ancestry from "true" primates (lemurs, lorises, 
tarsiers, monkeys, baboons, etc), and both lineages evolved independently 
from a primitive shrew-like placental.

> This is why I am ever so pleased that the "BANDits" now include 
> dromaeosaurids as birds:

This is a huge capitulation, as Richard Prum notes.  For the last 20 years 
(or more), the BANDits have been arguing that all the similarities shared by 
_Archaeopteryx_ and dromaeosaurids are due to convergent or parallel 
evolution; and that differences in certain "key" features (e.g., dentition) 
"proved" that dromaeosaurids and birds were *not* related.  Now the BANDits 
must explain how maniraptorans (which they no longer consider to be 
theropods) show so many features in common with the taxa they leave behind 
in the Theropoda.  Not an easy task.  A hopeless one, in fact.




Tim

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