RE: BRONTOSAURUS FOREVER! (and BIG MAMMAL TRAMPLES DEAD DINOSAUR)

["Tracy L. Ford" <dino.hunter@cox.net>]

-----Original Message-----
From: owner-dinosaur@usc.edu [mailto:owner-dinosaur@usc.edu]On Behalf Of
Williams, Tim
Sent: Wednesday, June 26, 2002 12:17 PM
To: 'dinosaur@usc.edu'
Subject: RE: BRONTOSAURUS FOREVER! (and BIG MAMMAL TRAMPLES DEAD DINOSAUR)

Garrison Hilliard wrote:

>Screw it... I, Bob. and Gordon agree... it's Brontosaurus.

Oh well, that's it then.   :-)

Actually, the _Apatosaurus_ vs _Brontosaurus_ 'controversy' is not as
complicated as you might think, and boils down to three separate issues:

(1) Nomenclatural: _Apatosaurus_ was named before _Brontosaurus_ - but since
both genera were named by the same person (Marsh), do the laws of priority
apply?  The ICZN says yes.  Therefore _Apatosaurus_ gets the gig.<<

Yea, but its amazing that on this list there are so many who just want to do
what they want and not use the proper established 'rules'.

(2) Taxonomic I: Do _Brontosaurus excelsus_ (type species of _Brontosaurus_)
and _Apatosaurus ajax_ (type species of _Apatosaurus_) belong in the same
genus?  With one exception (see below), sauropod workers answer with a
resounding 'yes': the two species are so similar that they are certainly
congeneric, and perhaps even conspecific.  Thus, _Apatosaurus_ wins out as
the valid genus that contains both species.<<

I believe the two are separate genera. Apatosaurus has a shorter thicker
neck and body while Brontosaurus has a longer thinner neck (not like
Barosaurus or Diplodocus) but thinner than Apatosaurus. The ration between
the neck lengths between Apatosaurus and Brontosaurus are the same that are
for Barosaurus and Diplodocus. I talked to Jack McInthosh about this (he
doesn't believe they're separate) and told me to write it up. But then I'd
have to go to the museums and move those HUGE bones....

>>Bakker has taken issue with both (1) and (2) - the former in the 1970's,
and
the latter more recently (1998) on the basis of a distinctive sauropod skull
(not yet described) which Bakker mentioned as possibly referrable to _B.
excelsus_.<<

Knowing how Bakker publishes, we'll have a loooonnnnggg wait. :(



Tracy L. Ford
P. O. Box 1171
Poway Ca  92074


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Timothy J. Williams, Ph.D.

USDA-ARS Researcher
Agronomy Hall
Iowa State University
Ames IA 50014

Phone: 515 294 9233
Fax:   515 294 9359