RE: Ankylosauromorpha page

["Tracy L. Ford" <dino.hunter@home.com>]

-----Original Message-----
From: owner-dinosaur@usc.edu [mailto:owner-dinosaur@usc.edu]On Behalf Of T.
Mike Keesey
Sent: Thursday, January 31, 2002 10:17 AM
To: Mike Taylor
Cc: dinosaur@usc.edu
Subject: Re: Ankylosauromorpha page

On Thu, 31 Jan 2002, Mike Taylor wrote:

> So finally, my actual question is just this: doesn't anyone else but
> me feel uncomfortable about using sets of definitions which leave some
> specimens in this taxonomic no-man's-land?

They're not in no-man's land. They're in _Ankylosauroidea_ (by the
definitions Mickey posted).

And there's nothing to prevent one from naming Clade(_Ankylosaurus_ <--
_Nodosaurus_). In fact, I think I have seen something like this before:
Ankylosauridae = (Ankylosaurus <-- Nodosaurus)
Polacanthinae = (Polacanthus <-- Ankylosaurus)
Shamosaurinae = (Shamosaurus <-- Ankylosaurus)
Ankylosaurinae = (Ankylosaurus <-- Shamosaurus)

Of course, then you get some ankylosaurids that aren't polacanthines,
shamosaurines, or ankylosaurines -- but, eh, so what?<<

A discussion on ankylosaurs, I just can't stay away...
First, Stegosaurs and Ankylosaurs are not related, not even closely. Thanks
to the missbelief of this and cladistics it keeps getting perpetuated (I'm
just say'n in this case :) ).
Scelidosaurus is an ankylosauroid (or ankylosaur) and NOT at the junction of
thyrophean, which doesn't exist. Norman is working on this and should have
the paper out soon. Jim Kirkland also believes this (pers. comm..).
And where is Stegopeltinae? Oh yea, I didn't use a cladgram so we all can
ignore this, right? The armor is different and I will be giving a talk at
the Tate Symposium on Ankylosaurus and ankylosauridae and showing how
different the scutes are and their similarities.
My mistake in actually looking at the specimens and not just the literature
I suppose.
        Thomas R. Holtz wrote:

<< I hope the following is taken in the spirit that it is intended: that is,
to

encourage enthusiastic individuals to redirect their energies into

potentially more productive ways. >>

You know what this will mean, an increase in video game sales :)

But I must second your comments. This is all good mental stimulus but there
are ways to do things and they are, in some cases, being totally ignored and
they are doing what ever they want.
Tracy L. Ford