Re: paraphyletic Dromaeosauridae (was: first raptor)

["Mickey_Mortimer11" <Mickey_Mortimer11@email.msn.com>]

Ken Kinman wrote-

>      Actually I have long been contemplating whether a paraphyletic Family
> Dromaeosauridae giving rise to Aves might be the best way to go.

Dromaeosaurids (Dromaeosaurus + Velociraptor) haven't been paraphyletic in
any of my recent analyses, with Dromaeosaurus, Deinonychus,
Saurornitholestes and Velociraptor always forming a deinonychosaur clade,
sometimes with Achillobator and Adasaurus as well.

> I  have not decided where Adasaurus should go (near or in
Velociraptorines??).
> Perhaps troodonts are intermediate between utahraptorines and
> dromaeosaurines, but at this point, whose knows:

Ah!  No!  Achillobator and Utahraptor are much closer to dromaeosaurids than
troodontids.  Adasaurus' problem is that it's almost impossible to compare
to Dromaeosaurus, while I don't know exactly where Achillobator (which it
also resembles) goes.

David Marjanovic wrote-

> Well, what about that:
> Deinonychosauria sensu Padian, Holtz & Hutchinson, 1997/1999 non sensu
> Gauthier, 1986 nec sensu Sereno, 1998
>  |--*Archaeopteryx*
>  |--*Rahonavis*
>   `--+--*Microraptor*
>        `--+--*Sinornithosaurus*
>             `--+--*Bambiraptor*
>                  `--Dromaeosauridae sensu... anyhow, non sensu Sereno,
1998
>                       |--Dromaeosaurinae
>                       `--Velociraptorinae

I like-
|-Troodontidae
`--+--?"Utahraptorinae"
     `--+--+--?"Utahraptorinae"
          |     `--+--Bambiraptor
          |          `--+--Velociraptor
          |               |--Saurornitholestes
          |               |--Deinonychus
          |               `--+--Dromaeosaurus
          |                    `--?"Utahraptorinae"
          `--+--+--Sinornithosaurus
               |     `--NGMC 91
               `--+--Microraptor
                    |--Archaeopteryx
                    `--+--Rahonavis
                         `--+--Yandangornis, Sapeornis, Pygostylia

Ken Kinman wrote-

> Presently I am tyring to decide what to do with Yandangornis.  Is it a
> bird near Sapeornis, or closer to dromaeosaurs (sensu lato) or a more
> primitive maniraptor?

All my previous analyses placed it as sister to Pygostylia, but Sapeornis
muddles things up.  Yandangornis is more derived than Sapeornis based on-
fibula does not reach calcaneum; phalanx II-2 longer than II-1?; reduced
manual unguals.  It's less derived than Sapeornis based on- cervical centra
not heterocoelous; absence of pygostyle?.  Problems arise because I don't
trust the accuracy of the skeletal reconstruction of Yandangornis in the
original description, so phalangeal lengths are suspect.  Most authors don't
differentiate the semi-heterocoelous state from either amphicoelous or
heterocoelous, but aren't more likely to choose one of the extremes when
describing the intermediate condition (eg. Confuciusornis has been described
as having amphicoelous and heterocoelous cervicals by different authors, but
truly has an intermediate state).  Finally, the very distal end of
Yandangornis' tail isn't preserved, so it may have had a small
Nomingia-style pygostyle, like Sapeornis.  Also, there are a couple
characters in Yandangornis (olecranal fossa; phalanx II-2 longer than II-1?;
reduced manual unguals) and Sapeornis (ulna longer than humerus; scapular
shaft tapering distally) that are more derived than confuciusornithids.  So
complicated, I'll just have to see what my analysis does with them....

Mickey Mortimer