Re: Sauropods in wet versus dry environments... a tip of the hat to some past artists (Was Re. Lost Worlds)

["Rob Gay" <rob@dinodomain.com>]

To start, I find this whole personal attack uncalled for, and ad hominem
attacks such as this have NO place here on the DML.
Having said such, I will attempt to clarify myself, and try and straighten
things out objectively.
>Rob Gay said to me in his recent posting to the list, "Either extrapolate
paleobiology for the whole ichnofauna based on the substrate, or...do
something else..."<
http://www.cmnh.org/fun/dinosaur-archive/2002Jan/msg00587.html
As this is the post I was replying to. I'm sorry if the end comes off snide,
but, as many here can attest to, I'm not very good at expressing myself.

>Sounds inexplicably agitated, doesn't he?  Strange.  My words were intended
to be just a short comment to the list, not a broad treatise on the
paleobiology.<
Once again, it was HP Hecht's comments I was replying to. And yes, I'm
agitated that people are saying, "Sauropods are aquatic" when they aren't
saying the same thing about the other animals represented in the fauna. If
its the "do something else" comment that is the issue, I think it has been
misinterpreted (like much else in paleontology, it seems ;)). I was going to
say, "or don't extrapolate at all," but I thought that sounded too snide and
rude...all I was trying to convey is that _everything_ must be taken into
account in these situations...what good is it to draw conclusions based on
one piece of evidence?

>Could Gay's remark be just the kind of personal put-down I referred to in
my previous post?  Is it a put-down of the ego-boosting kind?  I ask that,
but prefer each answer that for oneself.  It might not have been so bad if
he had not added the nasty, "...or do something else".<
In fact, no, it is not. It wasn't in reply to your comment, and was not a
comment on anyone's ability to do anything! I'm not very good at expressing
what I mean in words some times, and I'm sorry that it carried to wrong
meaning to anyone. And, I would prefer each to answer for oneself based on
what the statement actually meant.

>     I could comment on some, to me, very in-error things I've seen on
Rob's web site, but...  :)<
Please do!!! So few people have! I know its not perfect, but with so few
people saying anything other than, "Cool," or "Nice", how can I improve?!
Please, please send any comments or critiques to me!

>Rob risks appearing foolish by his snide comments to me, betraying the fact
that he did not objectively read my first post on this subject.<
Once again, it was not in reply to your comments (which I did read
objectively).

>I never, ever, claimed that sauropods could not have lived in some other
type of environs<
Did I disagree with this?

>but just made it clear that I didn't think they could live long in a very
dry environment, and inferred, that they seemed to flourish in the kind of
environments in which their tracks are found -- contrary to some intervening
trends in paleo art.<
Which is fine! My issue is not with where they lived, but how such
interpretations are being made...that's all.

>Also, of course, I know that theropod tracks are often found with sauropod
tracks, but the thing to keep in mind is that while theropod tracks are
found abundantly in some seemingly very dry environments, I am unaware of
any sauropod tracks from such environments.<
Beyond early-middle Jurassic deposits, I don't know of any non-water
influenced deposit that contains footprints from the time of sauropods.

>One might wonder if Rob can barf up a few of the exceptions one might
figure he has ingested, judging from his comments.<
Well, there was a couple sauropod footprints from the Blackhawk that we saw
this summer, but this is neither fully dry nor marginal marine, so I'm not
sure how much this adds to the conversation.

>Rob seemingly does not understand that I wouldn't have mentioned the
possibly of preservational bias if I felt absolutely that sauropods did not
live elsewhere. This is another case of creating a straw man, pretending to
'slay' it, and claiming to have won.<
Should I appologize for not being articulate in e-mails? Or is this a case
of my own glaring stupidity shining through...I should just stick to the
Kayenta, and never offer my thoughts on anything dealing with any other
aspect of dinosaurs ever again.

>Perhaps Rob has been hanging around an SVP meeting with a vociferous and
well-known gossip who has long tried to put me down and who has never asked
to come here (although he is now relatively nearby) to check out my finds
and my work in organizing them. If so, perhaps one can excuse Rob's reaction
to my posting as his being young and impressionable. Before one suggists
that I "do something else", shouldn't one at least talk to the numerous
professionals (including Martin Lockley) who, unlike the guy I mention, have
bothered to come here and objectively examine my work with tracks.<
Well, having talked to the mainly the undergrads, and the few professionals
(none of whom deal in tracks AFAIK), and had 0 conversations about trackways
at the 1 SVP I've attended, I'd say that this hypothesis is not very likely.

>If Rob wants the has-visited-and-complimented-me list sent to him
privately, it's his for the asking.  I could even jpeg for him some of the
comments they have freely writtten to me in the fronts of their deservedly
esteemed books.<
No need. I believe you.

> In closing I ask, "...do something else", huh?!.  When Rob has the kind of
track record (pun intended) that I have, in finding numerous varieties of
tracks and some marvellous trackways where no one had previously found any
(in the Early Cretaceous of Maryland), I might regard his right to tell me
to quit, but only because by that time (I'm 63 now.), I might be ready to
retire from such activity.  :-}<
http://www.cmnh.org/fun/dinosaur-archive/2002Jan/msg00587.html
I was not replying to your comment, and I was not attempting to insult any
memeber of the DML in any way, as explained above. I am sorry if anyone took
the previous message the wrong way. Going back to doing my own thing and
keeping my nose out of anything that I once had interest in.
Peace,
Rob

Student of Geology
P.O. Box 20840
Flagstaff, Az. 86011
http://dinodomain.com
http://www.cafepress.com/robsdinos
AIM: TarryAGoat
"A _Coelophysis_ with feathers?"