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RE: The One True King



 

 

-----Original Message-----
From: MariusRomanus@aol.com [mailto:MariusRomanus@aol.com]
Sent: Wednesday, April 03, 2002 11:30 PM
To: dino.hunter@cox.net
Subject: The One True King

 

This time I really did read the whole thread and he did (I swear) say I could send this to the list (really). I think this is interesting and should be put on the list.



http://hometown.aol.com/lestatk/

Hmmmmm...... Since my website was the instigator.... I guess I'm allowed to make some comments.....

When I saw this Giganotosaurus mount in person, it was very much apparent to me that Tyrannosaurus rex was, without a doubt, much more powerful in many respects then that of Giganotosaurus. I mean..... there was absolutely no question about it. Just the bones themselves tell the story. The jaws..... and the skull in general..... is just..... well.... "thin" in Giganotosaurus. It's not robust in the least bit. Why do we need "data"??? I think my pictures I have on my website tell a compelling story all on their own. And never mind the teeth. Tyrannosaurus rex dentation is the definition of robust..... And to top it all off, it had the maxilla from hell. Why need such strong teeth if they were just going to be ripped out anyway???.... Answer: You have them because they are powered by a massive skull and jaw that drives them right through bone like the railroad spikes they resemble..... Giganotosaurus teeth were used like the slicing blades they resemble.... They didn't need a massive amount of power to drive them through flesh. Simple as that really.

The anterior pterygoideus muscle complex in Tyrannosaurus rex was massive.... Let alone the size of the temporalis group which passed downward and inserted in the mandibles inner opening. Giganotosaurus simply didn't have the bone surface area to accommodate these muscle groups to the size extent seen in Tyrannosaurus rex. (I'll get to that expanded look to the Giganotosaurus skull later.) The most powerful muscle of the bunch had to be the jaw closing pterygoideus posterior. It was HUGE in Tyrannosaurus rex. When you look at the attachments for these muscles on the roof of both skulls.... and then look at where they wrap around and attach to the rear outside surface of the mandible..... there really is no question about who had the nuclear generator and who had the steam engine. And as for the neck?..... Forget about it... With its broad transverse crest on top of the back of the braincase and its strongly S curved neck... Tyrannosaurus rex definitely was the bulldog of theropods.

But.... I have to say that the neural spines in Giganotosaurus also seem to brace one another.... and the vertebra are still high right at the occiput. The muscles there need to go somewhere... So it does look like the neck muscles of Giganotosaurus could have reached to between the lacrimals of the skull. In fact, they could have went to about a quarter of the way up in the rostral direction past the caudal end of the ant. orbital actually....  It's all in the angle I suppose.

But then again.... something about how the skull was mounted has always bothered me. It's low.... almost too low.... relative to the vertebrae. The spines almost look too high to be right. I wasn't able to see the actual atlas/axis complex, so I'm not sure what the story is.

But regardless, from what I was able to see from the cervicals themselves, there is no doubt that Tyrannosaurus rex was able to flex it's neck more. In Giganotosaurus, they seem to have themselves linked together... one onto the other. This would have given the neck strength, but this doesn't mean well muscled. This also could have effected how the bite and pull method supposedly implemented by these theropods was actually carried out. Giganotosaurus might not have been able to wrench its head back with as much force as Tyrannosaurus rex could. The flexibility to do so just wasn't there.

Sure, the neck of Giganotosaurus could have had a buffalo type look to it..... but with the above babble about the structure of the neck.... this doesn't equate to great biting force. Also, there is another reason... The epaxial muscles of the dorsal vertebrae. They would have had tendons. If they had enough height to them, these would have helped support the head if the neck was as short as we see it here in this mount, and if the head was in that orientation. In birds, the vertebrae from 3-4 up easily hold up the ones from behind with ossified tendons... and this really doesn't matter much. You have the same thing going on with the tails of Ornithischians. But, there is no reason to have ossification. All you need to have are overlapping tendons that would have formed a lattice network for hold things up just like a bridge. As we know, it's easier to hold something hanging then it is to hold it straight out. So, if the skull of Giganotosaurus hung there like in that mount, it was actually held up, with both the neck and the thoracic region playing a part in the endeavor.

As for the expanded skull...... I'm not sure if we know that it was expanded as in that reconstruction... or if it's just an interpretation. I know that the skull was pieced together. Now, if we are talking about how it is expanded relative to other theropods, it does seem to be a bit far apart at the caudal end. But, the head is also a bit too triangular in dorsal view, and it makes me wonder if that is natural. All I can really tell is that the post-orbital region to the occiput moves in a ventral direction and flares more as it does then when compared to a lot of other theropods. It's a bit like allosaurs, but more to an extreme.

When you get right down to it...... it's like a friend of mine says....... If a guy comes into a bar... and he is 6ft 5inches and has no fat on him.... with a  65inch chest.... And then another guy comes in.... and he is 6ft 7inches and has... a 45inch chest..... Which one do you call the sissy????

But of course... before selecting who is the sissy, I would first run a matrix and then do a stress test...  ::rolling eyes::

Kris

 

I don have one comment. I had the pleasure of going to Mary Odano’s place (she makes casts of both prehistoric and living skeletons) which held the last? (I think it was the last) LA  Dinosaur Club meeting. Coria and Currie were there (along with Don Lessem who helped get Coria and the material of Giganotosaurus to Mary) discussion the reconstructed skull of Giganotosaurus. We where the first to see it! And the skull is accurate and it was great seeing them explain it to us all. They also had a slide show and they showed the first dentary fragment which is 10% bigger than reconstructed skull (which is smaller). The slide had a ruler and we made the slide actual size and we compared the other dentary to it, quite impressive to say the least.

 

Tracy L. Ford

P. O. Box 1171

Poway Ca  92074