Re: Vorona and Sickle Claws

["Jaime A. Headden" <qilongia@yahoo.com>]

I wrote:

<<2) Oviraptorosauria contains strictly only animals closer to
*Oviraptor* than to birds, ornithomimosaurs, or
therizinosaurs.>>

  This is my preferred definition of Oviraptorosauria sensu
stricto, by the way, and I feel that such definitions
[explictly: Oviraptorosauria = (*Oviraptor* <= *Passer*,
*Therizinosaurus*, *Ornithomimus*) *Passer* is the sparrow, but
one might feel like using the crow, *Corvus* as a more
generalized and easily accessible taxon] better serve in
creating strict groups. It is still permissible to have some
wierd taxa like *Caudipteryx* and *Microvenator* as strict
oviraptorosaurs, but keeps the classic concept from including
therizinosaurs. Not that that's really bothersome, but it would
be nice to start having a few more external/exclusive specifiers
in defining groups for which a strict concept is common to us
all. Anyway, on with the discussion....

Ekaterina Amalitzkaya (eamalitz@hotmail.com) wrote:

<So I presume this definition of oviraptorosaurs does include
the Caenagnathids.>

  They are generally deemed closer to oviraptors than to other
theropods or birds, so yes.

<Was there not talk of some "Triebold Chirostenotes" that was
really massive- is its pes know? This Chirostenotes could still
make the ovis amidsts largest maniraptorans even if Therizis are
not considered maniraptorans. But this obviously cannot be the
largest beacuse we forget the looming presence of the great
Deinocheirus- a Deinonychosaur or an ornithomimosaur.
Deinocheirus does not look like a therizinosaur at all. What
ever it was must have been very impressive.>

  Let's looks at this one. From what I know of the Triebold
Elmisaur it is only about 15 or so feet long, well below the
threshhold set by *Therizinosaurus* at around 40ft, whose arms
are well over 2.5m, longer than those of *Deinocheirus*.

<Interesting paleobiological thought: do you think it was a
piscivore fishing with those long hand claws? Or was it sandcat
analog hunting in the deserts. Does this inference of yours also
hold good for the Caenagnathids?>

  There were riverine systems in the Gobi from Djadokhtan
through Barungoyotian time, becoming nearly tropical in
Nemegtian time. There were also plenty of fresh-water food, and
while it's possible some oviraptorosaurs were piscivorous, very
few show adaptations for this. My prevailing theory is that they
as a whole were generalist racoon analogues, taking various prey
depending on habitat.

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