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Re: Details on Nanshiungosaurus bohlini



David Marjanovic wrote-
It was thought that Therizinosaurus reached 12 m -- is this outdated?
 
Well, since Therizinosaurus is only known from forelimbs, ribs and pedal elements, it's length must be estimated using other taxa.  Using Alxasaurus as a guide, since it is the only segnosaur known from a nearly complete skeleton, gives a length of 7.7 meters.  This is based on comparing humeral lengths (760 vs. 375 mm) of Therizinosaurus (GI 100/15) with the larger individual of Alxasaurus (IVPP V 88402), which was estimated to be 3.8 meters long by Russell and Dong.  Comparing different elements (ulna, metacarpal II) will give different lengths, but they all fall around 8 meters (7.8 and 9.8 in this case).  Of course, Therizinosaurus could have had different proportions than Alxasaurus, but this is currently unknown.  In fact, the hypothetical reconstructions I've seen give it a much shorter tail which would make it less than seven meters long.
Hmmm... if it exists. Sereno puts it closer to Ornithomimosauria all the time, and there are still people (like my 0.02 â worth) going around who think segnosaurs are more probably prosauropods...
 
Well, the studies of Holtz (1996, 1999, 2000), Frankfurt and Chiappe (1999), Makovicky and Sues (1998), Sues (1997), Xu et al. (1999) and my own all support an oviraptorosaur-segnosaur group.  Only Sereno (1997, 2000) and Dong and Currie (1994) have performed analyses that dispute this.  Sereno places them as the sister group to ornithomimosaurs and alvarezsaurids (which I also disagree with), while Dong and Currie place them as sister group to troodontids, then to oviraptorosaurs.  Other studies, such as those of Britt (using only vertebral characters) and Elzanowski (using only skull characters), place them in a group with troodontids, ornithomimids and oviraptorosaurs, but aren't specific regarding relationships within that group.  It has become increasingly clear that segnosaurs are theropods, with the discovery of Alxasaurus and especially Beipiaosaurus.  I'm fairly certain even George and Greg agree now.
As the extent of pneumatisation is heavily influenced by ontogenetic age and the fossil record of (of? for? what's correct?) segnosaurs isn't too good, couldn't we have found only subadults of Therizinosauroidea?
 
Dong and Currie (1994) consider the large specimen of Alxasaurus adult, based on the firmly closed sutures between the neural arches and centra of dorsal and caudal vertebrae, and the fused sacral centra and ribs.  As for Nanshiungosaurus brevispinus (the only other taxon that matters in this regard, as it has dorsal centra preserved), I'm not sure if Dong has an opinion (as the paper's in Chinese), but the pelvic elements are fused which may suggest the holotype is adult.
 
Mickey Mortimer