RE: Sue's Family

["Thomas R. Holtz, Jr." <tholtz@geol.umd.edu>]

> From: owner-dinosaur@usc.edu [mailto:owner-dinosaur@usc.edu]On Behalf Of
> Dave Sorochty

[in reference multiple specimens of _T. rex_ at the same site]:

> Aren't there several specimens at the "Rigby" site?  BTW how many
> were there?
> Was it two or three?

This site nor its specimens has NOT been described in any detail yet: please
give Rigby the chance to actually do his research, and write it up, and
disseminate it!!

I, too, have heard the *rumor* that evidence of more than one individual was
found there, but that is all it is: a rumor.  Until we have some good hard
descriptions, we'll have to wait.

Patience IS a virtue, after all.

On a related topic, Betty Cunningham [bettyc@flyinggoat.com] wrote:
>These other T rexes aren't Sue.
>Were they seized by the FBI along with Sue?

Yes.

>Are they part of the whole Sue-auction-purchase package?

Yes.

Remember, the case was about the collection of fossils (plural) on that
particular patch of land, NOT about who should get the largest _T. rex_
specimen in the world (despite the way it sometimes seemed).

>These particular questions are hardly ICZN-conflicting

Not ICZN, but for someone who is engaged on *contract work* on a certain
specimen for whom legal issues are a problem, caution is strongly advised.

>considering the
>amount of media paperwork already out on the Sue-herself-ownership
>circus.

However, they were remains of smaller individuals and thus not worthy of
media attention... :-S

>Anybody remember the filthy details on these other T rexes?

Well, as someone NOT engaged in contract work on a certain specimen, and
having seen the collection prior to the auction, I can say a few things.

There are not multiple skeletons from the Sue site.  Or, if they are, they
have only been discovered subsequent to the FMNH preparation of the bones.

There are, at best, a few isolated bones indicating the presence of the
corpses of smaller _T. rex_ individuals at that site.  There are a couple of
limb bones, a great lacrimal, maybe a few other bits & pieces.  (And a
turtle, and some other non-dinosaurian reptiles, too).

That's it: fragments only.  NO extra skeletons, NO particular evidence that
this was a family group (my first guess, given that I haven't seen the field
maps, is that the smaller tyrannosaur bones were washed in from rotten
corpses upstream, and became lodged against Sue's body post mortem).

There ARE other cases of more than one _T. rex_ skeleton (with articulated
remains) being found in the same location (the LACM quarry in eastern
Montana, if memory serves).

                Thomas R. Holtz, Jr.
                Vertebrate Paleontologist
Department of Geology           Director, Earth, Life & Time Program
University of Maryland          College Park Scholars
                College Park, MD  20742
http://www.geol.umd.edu/~tholtz/tholtz.htm
http://www.geol.umd.edu/~jmerck/eltsite
Phone:  301-405-4084    Email:  tholtz@geol.umd.edu
Fax (Geol):  301-314-9661       Fax (CPS-ELT): 301-405-0796>