Re: Sinosauropteryx at Dinofest

["Allan Edels" <edels@email.msn.com>]

Ralph, et al:

  One of the points that Larry Martin made that is difficult to dispute,
is,  if we look at the dark material in the eye socket of _Sinosauropteryx_
(presumably eye material), we do not see any distortion such as suggested by
Phil Currie and Greg Paul (ie. the 'road-kill' remarks)  His point is - that
implies that there is therefore no distortion of the internal body cavity.
(This is intended to bolster his group's claim that the dark feature seen in
the body is the liver).

    My only response to this is that material within the eye sockets could
have been retained in place without any apparent distortion (ie. maintained
by the scoleric rings (sorry for any misspellings)).  This would not
necessarily be the case for material within the body cavity.

    Alan Brush's talk was very interesting and informative.  His detailed
drawings of
feathers and proto-feathers clearly explained a difficult process.

    Note should be made that the size of the (presumed) protofeather fibers
are notably different than collagen fibers - and if someone could properly
'tease' an individual fiber from _Sinosauropteryx_ then we could measue them
and settle this silly piece of the puzzle.  (Really - there was only one
photo where the collagen fibers looked anything like the tufts on the tail
of _Sinosauropteryx_ - and this was after some considerable rearrangement of
the fibers on the lizards).  Someone suggested (besides the testing for
Keratin versus Collagen) that the eye socket material as well as the
'protofeather' material might contain Melanin  - and that tests shold be
performed to determine this.

    Josh Smith's talk put the dating of _Sinosauropteryx_ and _Confusornis_
(etc.) at 120 million years.  He ended his talk by stating that the
international team ("Dream Team") was unable to confirm exactly where the
_Sinosauropteryx_  specimens had been located!!!  (Phil Currie contradicted
this statement minutes later in his talk -  Josh told me later of that he
went into his talk with the understanding that Phil agreed with his
assesment).  By the way, at 120 million years old, _Sinosauropteryx_ is not
too likely to have been ancestral to _Archaeopteryx_ (~150 mya).

    Dong Zhiming said that a very good preparator is needed to expose the
latest _Sinosauropteryx_  specimen.


    By the way I think that _Sinosauropteryx_  did in deed have some sort of
protofeathers.

        Allan Edels

-----Original Message-----
From: Ralph Miller III <gbabcock@best.com>
To: Dinosaur Mailing List <dinosaur@usc.edu>
Date: Sunday, April 26, 1998 1:19 AM
Subject: Sinosauropteryx at Dinofest


>If anyone could be called the star of Dinofest '98, it would have to be
>_Sinosauropteryx prima_.
SNIP
>Alan Brush presented "Protofeathers: What are we looking for?"
SNIP
>Philip J. Currie's talk on "Feathered Dinosaurs" reiterated much of what he
>had said at last October's SVP meeting.
SNIP
>Philip J. Currie (like Gregory S. Paul) disputes the characterization of
>the alleged internal anatomy as indicative of a croc-like hepatic piston
>lung system, on the basis that the so-called "septum" is a crack infilled
>with cement on the cited specimen and the stain may be the residue of a
>last meal or any other organ, not necessarily a liver.  He further pointed
>out that the soft anatomy (if that's what it is) may have been distortedand
moved within the body cavity after death.  Based on the bird-like
>structure of the ribs, gastralia, and sternum, quite similar to those of
>_Protarchaeopteryx_ and _Confuciusornis_, Currie expects that the enclosed
>anatomy would be bird-like rather than croc-like.  He and Steven F. Perry
>allocated a separate talk to a thorough refutation of the croc-style
>respiration hypothesis.

SNIP
>
>Alan H. Brush remarked that there are preparator's scratches on the
>specimens, obscuring the true fiber orientation.  He also stated that some
>of the observed morphology could represent not the distal branching of
>fibers, but the presence of organisms which attached themselves to the
>fibers.
>
>It was emphasized that the fiber diameters need to be carefully measured,
>and that someone like Mary Schweitzer should perform tests on the fibers to
>determine whether feather keratin chemistry is present.
>
>Then Dong Zhiming appeared and proclaimed that "A fourth specimen has been
>discovered."  He stressed the need for expert preparation this time.  Wow!
>
>-- Ralph Miller III     gbabcock@best.com
>