Re: The absurdity, the absurdity (was: Cooperating theropods?)

["Larry Dunn" <larrydunn@hotmail.com>]

From: Chris Campbell <sankarah@ou.edu>

>Larry Dunn wrote:

>Are you a lawyer or something? 

Why, as a matter of fact, I am a lawyer or something (I'll leave it to 
you to determine which).

>You seem to enjoy twisting words.  

Oh my.

>Once
>again: lots of animals work cooperatively. 

(snip)

>  Nothing's stopping you,
>however, from working together just like everything from ants to sharks
>to naked mole rats. 

I see.  Ants and sharks and naked mole rats.  Do you turn to manatee 
when hypothesizing about sauropod behavior?  Ant lions when 
hypothesizing about Tyrannosaur behavior?  What's wrong with this 
picture?

>> But we do have an idea.  We do have modern pack hunters, and
>> dromaeosaurs, as you point out, are nothing like them.  
>
>Which means we shouldn't say Dromies couldn't hunt in packs because 
they
>couldn't do what modern pack hunters do.  They can operate in packs in 
a
>different manner.  

But then again where do you draw your rationale for allowing them to do 
this? From snails and aardvark and mantids.  Why not look at animals 
that operate in packs and determine if dromaeosaurs are similar or 
different?  Why fixate on strangulating mammal stretegies to invalidate 
this method, only to let that *slight* difference between shark 
predation and probable dromaeosaur predation go unaddressed?

>I'd really like to know how you expect the dromie to do this without
>getting severely bitten.  Even a Tenontosaur could probably give a 
nasty
>bite if you stick your arm or neck in its mouth (which you'd pretty 
much
>have to for this approach to work).  A ceratopian would just bite the
>arm or neck in half.  This would be a very dangerous strategy.

Well, as you've mentioned, predators are hardy fellas.   And I have no 
idea how velociraptor approached protoceratops.  We can't tell from the 
Tugrugeen fossil, so I'll leave the wild speculation to others.  One 
thing I feel confident in, however, is that velociraptor did approach 
protoceratops.

>Mainly because the Protoceratops in question was in the process of
>giving as good as he got.  Them's bad odds for a predator, and that
>strategy would like as not get the attacker killed. 

Well, shit happens.  Maybe that's why this particular velociraptor and 
this particular protoceratops were preserved together.  But if this was 
a failed attack, what do you assume about these two animals in this 
particualr environment?  Why dismiss real evidence of a dromaeosaur in a 
feeding event and choose to analogize to king crabs or whatever instead?

>> Well, if all bets are off, if
> >all analogies to extant animals are inapposite, then what on *earth* 
are
>> you using to form your brave new assumptions?

>Not much.  Just what seems physically possible, and what might work 
from
>the viewpoint of evolutionary theory.  

Do you recognize this as a problem?

Larry

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