Re: The absurdity, the absurdity (was: Cooperating theropods?)

[Chris Campbell <sankarah@ou.edu>]

Larry Dunn wrote:
> 
> Sankarah wrote:
> 
> >> Why just look at the claw and ignore the brain and other anatomy of
> >> the animal?  Especially when there are other rationales for the claw?
> >
> >Like what?
> 
> Like the dromaeosaur predation technique we have a shred of reasonable
> evidence for.  A preserved Velociraptor has it's sickle claw at the neck
> of a Protoceratops.  Why ignore that and have dromaeosaurs hopping up on
> much larger animals and doing an ice skating routine on their backs?

Why assume anything about that?  How can you accept that as an even
remotely normal case?  The Velociraptor was getting *killed!*  What do
you expect him to do, charge the head of a potential prey animal, latch
on (exposing himself to a *beak*, for crying out loud!) and rip away? 
And you call pack attacking a big hadrosaur dangerous!
 
> >I don't see what the brain has to do with it; pack tactics can be
> >practiced by such simple-minded animals as hammerhead sharks, so I
> >don't think a bright therapod would have much trouble.
> 
> Apples and oranges.  The sea is a different place from the land.

Irrelevant.  We're talking about pack tactics and brain size.  Sharks
don't have brains to speak of, and use pack tactics on a rudimentary
level.  Where they live has nothing to do with it.  The bottom line is,
you don't need brains to operate in a pack.  You only need them in a
pack that has some complexity to it.

> Animals behave completely differently there because the rules are
> different.

One rule isn't: you don't need to be smart to work with others.
 
> >> But Deinonychus was not a mammal.
> >
> >So what?  If sharks, birds, and lizards can use pack tactics on
> >rudimentary levels, I see no reason to leave dinosaurs out.
> 
> Sharks have already been dealt with. 

Dismissed, not dealt with.

>Birds are inapposite for much the same reasons; 

Say what?  Birds are dinosaurs!  If they can do it, any old therapod can
as well.

>anyway, some people on this list had to bend over backwards 
>to find *any* hunting cooperation among birds.  

Maybe because folks on the list aren't ornithologists?  Possibly? 
Maybe?  Grab a bird guy and see how tough it is to find the example
you're talking about.

>And are you actually proposing that *lizards* are pack 
>hunters?  Why? Because Oras share still-living meals?

No, I'm suggesting that some lizards work together on occasion to bring
down a meal.  Simple concept.

> Are lizards, sharks and birds the animals you are proposing to justify
> the pack-hunting dromaeosaur?

Why not?  You seem equate pack hunting with mammal-scale tactics and
strategy.  I equate it with hanging out with conspecifics and killing a
meal together on occasion.  Totally, completely different orders of
magnitude.  Mammal packs are social units; what I'm proposing is more
tactical, an alliance of convenience.

Bottom line: if lizards, sharks, and birds can work cooperatively to
bring down prey, so can dromaeosaurs.
 
Chris