Re: The absurdity, the absurdity (was: Cooperating theropods?)

[Jack <jconrad@lib.drury.edu>]

On Sun, 5 Apr 1998, Larry Dunn wrote:

> From: Chris Campbell <sankarah@ou.edu>
> 
> They could have had razors issuing from their forelimbs and that doesn't 
> change the basic fact that dromaeosaur forelimbs weren't really suited 
> for grasping and holding on to a moving animal.

Why?

> Buffalo are not the only predators that defend themselves successfully.  
> Many do.

Like wildebeest, moose, and rhinoceros.  Herbivores with horns or other
such defensive structures.  Even then, they fall prey at times.

> Predators have to be in top shape to hunt successfully.  Small injuries 
> can often be fatal to them, let alone major ones.  A lion whose jaw has 
> been broken by a zebra was essentially killed by the zebra.

Yes, it has been.  But, lions still hunt zebra (successfully).  

> The scenario you describe takes a lot more coordination than most 
> *mammalian* predators employ!  And I'm not as enthusiastic as you to 
> adopt such a meat-on-the-table view of a large herbivore.  Because they 
> don't eat meat doesn't mean that they're not aggressive, especially in 
> defending themselves.  Even assuming for the moment that the killer 
> raptor rationale for the dromaeosaur/deinonychus site is correct, it 
> seems that tenontosaurus was prefectly capable of defending itself.

Yes, but as you pointed out, modern prey animals are capable of defending
themselves as well.  Yet, they still fall prey to predators at times.
Heck, cape buffalo hunt out and kill lion cubs when the opportunity
arises, but that doesn't change the fact that they are prey animals.  

> >>We can't want killer raptors so badly that we lose sight of this.
> >
> >Agreed.  And we can't want to tear down the image so badly that we lose
> >sight of other options.
> 
> "Other options" should not include basically describing an animal 
> starting with a tabula rosa because it has large claws on its hind legs.  

And is a cursorial biped... and has forelimbs unlike living predators...
and has the triple ability to attack with arms, legs, and mouth while only
having to worry about locomotion with hind limbs...

jc