Ranting segnosaurs

[tlford@ix.netcom.com (Tracy Ford)]

You wrote: 

>

And don't forget what 
>GPaul said in PDW that it may be possble that Herrerasaurus had armor 
>and also the Ceratosaurus armor was a reevolution or reoccurance of this 
>lost trait since all dinosaurian relatives have armor.
>

Coria told me a few years ago that Herrerasaurus does have armour.


>>         This is patently ludicrous! Ornithomimids has a far more 
>specialized
>> manus, and no one argue the homology of their manus! Again you 
>eliminate
>> homology a priori of a phylogenetic analyses.>>
>Dinogeorge:
>>Sorry, the ornithomimid manus is nothing like as specialized as a 
>segnosaur
>>manus. "Far more specialized" is going off the deep end.
> Come on Dinogeorge the therizinosaur manus is not as specialized as you 
>claim and obviously in early forms the manus is same as the typical 
>maniraptoran manus.

So Ornithimimids have reduced metacarpals (with MT 1 being very short and 
robust, MT II, robust and MT III very very reduced) and super elonganted 
unguals?


>><<>The feet
>>         The feet show clear signs of being secondarily quadradactyl 
>(Russell
>> and Dong 1993).>>
>Dinogeorge:
>>Nonsense. The signs, if any, are not clear at all.
> Geez the signs are very very clear. The typical therizinosaur pes is 
>not at all like prosauropods and does show signs of rebroadening as 
>described above.
>

>>
???WHAT, four toes on the pes of segnosaurs, 4 toes on the prosauropod. 
Aw yes,  segnosaurs are nothing like a prosauropod.



>><< >pelvis
>>         Retroverted pubes are present in some maniraptors, and anyway 
>are,
>> in this case, possibly related to herbivorous habits and are thus not 
>to be
>> excluded from the possibility of convergence.>>


What about the ilia? They are diffenatelly not like a theropod. The cranial end 
flares out, the ilia are very far apart. The ilia flare just like sauropods. 
What Theropod has a flaring ilia?


> Homolougus to Ornithiscian pubes?! No way. They resemble dromaeosaurid 
>pubes to a T with the degree of retroversion, structure of the pubic 
>foot, the small ventral ilia process, the musclatore ( short and compact 
>not like ornithiscians but like dromaeosaurids), and the laterally 
>compression of the pubis. 

Oh, I must be blind. What Dromaeosaurid are you looking at?

The pubis of dromaeosaurids/has a ditally espanding boot, segosaurs have a 
proximally expanding boot. The ischia touches the pubis in segosaurs, in 
dromaeosaurids it does not. The pubes do not look like each other, nor th
e ischia, nor the ilia.


Tracy