Re: The Two Principal Dinosaur Clades Defined

[Jeff Poling <jpoling@infinet.com>]

At 03:18 PM 12/8/95 -0500, Dinogeorge@aol.com wrote:

>Cladistically, the proto-birds, dino-birds, or small arboreal
>dinosaurs--whatever you'd like to call them--would _all_ be dinosaurs--as are
>birds themselves--being members of the clade Dinosauria: descended from the
>last common ancestor of _Megalosaurus_ and _Iguanodon_. The way I redefine
>Aves, however--as the clade of all dinosaurs closer to _Megalosaurus_ than to
>_Iguanodon_--would also make avians out of proto-birds, dino-birds, small,
>arboreal dinosaurs, and all known theropods, including birds. And just to
>make the picture _almost_ complete, the clade Phytodinosauria is defined as
>all dinosaurs closer to _Iguanodon_ than to _Megalosaurus_.

   So the problem we have here is one of semantics?  The first dinosaurs
were small and arboreal that became large and cursorial in your theory,
rather than the mainstream theory of the first dinosaurs being large and
cursorial that evolved small and arboreal forms?

   If that is true, then BADD and BCF are not that far apart.  If I read you
correctly, the first dinosaurs weren't birds we would recognize today, they
were animals that people would recognize as dinosaurs (bipedal, erect
posture, S shaped neck, long tail, 2 - 3 fingered hand, three toed foot plus
hallux) if they saw them.  You're simply defining them as birds.

   I submit that may be a mistake.  The idea of "birds came first" doesn't
jive with me because I like the idea of birds descending from theropod
dinosaurs.  As far as I can tell, your BCF theory has birds evolving from
animals we would recognize as dinosaurs ... you've simply changed the names
to confuse the innocent.

   Perhaps if you used an acronym such as DDAB (Dinosaurs Descended from
Arboreal Beginnings, an acronym that is BADD backwards and appropriate
since, as stated in my first paragraph, the order of descent is backward
from that of BADD) might engender less hostility, and might actually be
clearer in describing your theories.

** THE DINOSTORE.  50% OFF STOCK LIQUIDATION!!  ALL IN-STOCK DINOSAUR FOSSIL **
** REPLICAS, COLLECTIBLES AND BOOKS 50% OFF!  ONE WEEK ONLY:  Jan 15 - 21    **
** BUY $50 WORTH, SALE PRICE, AND GET 30% OFF ONE SPECIAL-ORDER FOSSIL       **
** REPLICA! Check out our on-line catalog at http://www.infinet.com/~jpoling/**
** Hurry, quantities are limited!                                            **