Re: Deinonychosauria

[Tom Holtz <tholtz@geochange.er.usgs.gov>]

>>Deinonychosauria (=Troodontidae + Dromaeosauridae) has never included the
>>birds.  In fact, many dinosaur workers now agree that 'deinonychosaurs' are
>>diphyletic, with dromaeosaurids being closer to birds, and troodontids
>>closer to ornithomimids.
>
>   *I* put them there for lack of anywhere else to put them in my dino
>database.  The _Dino Data Book_ places them in the Coelursaurs, but the
>_Dinosauria_ says Coelursaurs is a bogus grouping.  I decided to go with the
>_Dinosauria's_ info for my database, so I was left without a grouping to put
>Archie into.  So I picked the Deinonychosauria.

It does not say coelurosaurs are a bogus group (at least it shouldn't).
Coelurosauria = birds and all theropods closer to birds than to Allosaurus.
All the theropod chapters (except for Ceratosauria and Carnosauria) in the
Dinosauria discuss coelurosaurs.

>   And I probably would have picked Deinonychosauria anyway, just to be
>contrary.
>   What would be your suggestion?

Dromaeosauridae + birds = Maniraptora (in the strict sense).  For the group
including troodonts (and thus ornithomimosaurs and tyrannosaurids and
oviraptorids and...) as well, I incorrectly used "Maniraptora" in my 1994
paper, and am in the midst of rectifying that.

>>>   If you want to see somebody have a coniption fit, tell them that birds
>>>are reptiles.....
>   Actually, I was referring to people in general who don't know a thing
>about phylogeny and cladistics and such.
>
>   Tell the common man on the street that the pigeons he's feeding are
>reptiles ... and watch him start to foam at the mouth.

Okay, I agree with that...  (Of course, he probably thinks whales are fish
and that reptiles, birds, amphibs, fish, and invertebrates aren't
"animals"...).

                                
                 Thomas R. Holtz, Jr.                  Phone: 703-648-5280      
                 Vertebrate Paleontologist         Fax:    703-648-5420
tholtz@geochange.er.usgs.gov ------------>       th81@umail.umd.edu
U.S. Geological Survey          ------------->       University of Maryland
Branch of Paleontology & Stratigraphy ---->       Department of Geology
MS 970 National Center
Reston, VA  22092               ------------->        College Park, MD  20742
                                                          U.S.A.